Curse

**cosyfiep** · Sep 13, 2012, 11:48 PM // 23:48

well, we did want an elementalist update...I guess the adage..'be careful of what you wish' applies.

just means my eles will get some time off to dance in the towns instead.
/sad panda

Reformed · Sep 14, 2012, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by projectmercy

It would be a lot more interesting if the amount of overcast actually affected the bonus damage.

Not a terrible idea but I'd like to see some numbers attached to it. Would be especially brutal on monsters with bars favoring these combos who seem to completely shrug off exhaustion if they can even have it applied to begin with.

projectmercy · Sep 14, 2012, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

Not a terrible idea but I'd like to see some numbers attached to it. Would be especially brutal on monsters with bars favoring these combos who seem to completely shrug off exhaustion if they can even have it applied to begin with.

I don't see any reasons why monsters even needed to accrue exhaustion(overcast). Outside of the turtles with second wind, it's basically irrelevant to them. They get huge bonuses to deal with it, so, I say just drop it from them.

The NPC eles aren't the issue. They already have damage bonuses by the fact they're all over-leveled by +6-+10 levels.

DiogoSilva · Sep 14, 2012, 12:54 AM // 00:54

I have experimented with some of the new skills. I went to PvE with unpopular elements (water, air) and got surprising results.

Water, with a bit of earth invested, can consistently deal nearby-range damage with low recharge spells, and still have cracked armor, snaring, single-target burst and party support as a side bonus. (Ok, the support skill actually takes its own slot).
I started with Ice Spikes followed by the new earth's Tenai's Crystals, for adjacent/ nearby range decent damage with the snare and cracked armor effects respectively. I followed them with Shatterstone elite and new Icy Prism, for even better damage, nearby or single-target damage. Icy Prism fuels the new Swirling Aura, and Glowing Ice is there for long battles. Water Attunement + Elemental Lord for the final skills.

Air magic was a beauty. Invoke Lightning followed by the new Shell Shock now gives adjacent cracked armor, and the new Intensity coupled with Lightning Orb dealt massive 94+ area damage. I always pre-cast them with Glyph of Swiftness, so my Orb's projectile wasn't a problem, and so that my skills were always ready to be used.
I'm considering an Elemental Attunement build with the new Iron Mist over Glyph of Swiftness, the new Arc of Lightning over Invoke Lightning (no chain L., Iron Mist's overcast generation is dangerous), the new Lightning Hammer over Lightning Orb, and something else over Shell Shock. Should result a very similar build, but I'm unsure which one would be the best.
Or as another alternative, I also considered taking Invoke for Chain, to open space for an elite of choice (Thunderclap over Shell Shock, or Glimmering Mark/ Blinding Surge for more utility while retaining good damage).

To not understimate Intensity. This one is going to be meta in all current builds, IMO. Area damage is a big deal, the skill is instant-cast and cheap, and pretty much allows you to make burst aoe damage. A Rodgort's Invocation should hit for 200+ with Intensity in one cast, plus 80-90-ish to enemies slightly outside Rodgort's range. It also gives your single-target air skills a really strong aoe effect, which in addition to Arc Lightning is a really good thing to fill your air skillbar.

Overall, from those two tests alone, I'd say the update was very successful at fixing the elementalist. It makes non-fire elements much stronger for pve, and it allows for builds that can consistently deal aoe damage, and still bring decent utility and have low spell recharges, something the elementalist used to be weak at. Even the casting times are decent, with only Shatterstone and Lightning Orb having 2s cast time in my examples above. Speccing a bit into a second attunement has also been worth it, but clearly optional, so it shouldn't steal room for secondary prof's utility.

Also, playing with exhaustion/ overcast adds an extra layer of fun to an otherwise basic-to-play profession.

StormDragonZ · Sep 14, 2012, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Second Wind's text still says Exhaustion. Someone go inform the cactus overlooking GW1 to fix it.

DiogoSilva · Sep 14, 2012, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

Second Wind's text still says Exhaustion. Someone go inform the cactus overlooking GW1 to fix it.

Same for Glyph of Energy.

SongOf · Sep 14, 2012, 07:18 AM // 07:18

these skills are sooo complicated now, are we sure ele heroes are going to work properly with them?

Mintha Syl · Sep 14, 2012, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

well, we did want an elementalist update...I guess the adage..'be careful of what you wish' applies.

I fear that for every class overhaul tbh. And the reason why I absolutely don't want ranger to be touched. (Para can't be worse instead so eh...)

So, I didn't have time to read everything through yet. First of all I don't like Overcast mechanic. I don't think you should be rewarded for stacking exhaustion, but that's about what I thought when they made a real mechanic out of ench juggling for dervs (and I in fact always played derv as that didn't exist). And I think it will make monsters sooo much stronger, as exhaustion has never been a issue for them.

Talking about single skills though, I'll need to see. I like what they did to arc Lightning Javelin for example, but I think they ruined Shock Arrow to me, I always thought energy gain while foe is attacking was very rewarding if cast on the right foe, while with some easy-to-die groups they'll be dead before you can apply cracked armor, and you'll have no way to gain energy back through that skill.
That's just what my eyes catched through fast reading, as I said need to read all still...but my 2cents

Bristlebane · Sep 14, 2012, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Lightning Touch @3 with Fevered Dreams seems like a nice combination.
[email protected] gives 2s blind + 3s cracked to adjacent foes, which guarantees ~3s area dazed.
Low duration blind is better since FD only spread *new conditions. 5e 0.75c 10r makes it suitable for melee since it's cheap, fast, touch range, and only req 3 attribute in air.

Not finding much synergy with Iron Mist and Air Magic.. but I guess it can be useful with Lightning Hammer and Glyph of Swiftness. IM+GoS gives LH 1.1c 2.3r, if single target spiking is your game.

Tenai's Heat possible best suited for caster-centric teams. Weakened foes hitting 33% slower + degen = added caster protection and added chance for EoE to trigger.

Generally it's a bad idea to give Exh.. erhm.. Overcast skills to a hero. I guess the most viable Overcast skills would be Meteor, Meteor Shower, and Maelstrom. So what useful Fire or Water Magic hero builds could we get out of it that gives added Overcast abilities?

The new breakpoints for Glyph of Swiftness is at 2/6/10/14. Basically you only need 6 air compared to 12 to affect 3 spells. Makes it much more viable in non-air and non-ele builds.

Coast · Sep 14, 2012, 09:24 AM // 09:24

lol earth ele buffed once again, also stone sheath being 5 or 10 energy makes no diff in the end...
Also: they make glowstone a 0.75second cast while shock arrow still remains 1second cast.

here it comes:Shock Arrow: changed condition for Energy gain to "strikes a foe with cracked armor."

skills like Glowing Ice and Glowing Gaze, Shock Arrow's "while attacking" clause made it difficult to reliably use it for Energy gain. Now that Elementalists have improved access to Cracked Armor it made sense to change the conditional Energy gain on Shock Arrow. Players should find that getting the Energy from this skill is now much more reliable.

Glowstone: reduced casting time to 3/4 second.

Compared to the other Glowing skills, Glowstone was a little weak. Since it's a projectile and can be obstructed, unlike Glowing Gaze and Glowing Ice, and does not have bonus armor penetration, like Shock Arrow, we took the casting time down a bit in order to bring it up to par with the others.

my point is why make one a 0.75 and the other one not while theres an abundance of weakness.

Bristlebane · Sep 14, 2012, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Tested Phoenix. The 20..80 ally heal near target does not affect spirits, but it does affect minions. On other hand, spirits shouldn't be in nearby range of foes anyway. 57 nearby fire dmg for 10e and 7r is mediocre so the main use of this skill would be added heals to minions and melee professions. I doubt this skill will find much use except in niche minion teams. Necros can then replace BotM with something more offensive.

DreamRunner · Sep 14, 2012, 11:26 AM // 11:26

No change to Shockwave, or Stoning. I also lol'd at the change from 5e to 10e for stone sheath.

dagrdagaz · Sep 14, 2012, 11:30 AM // 11:30

@DiogoSilva: I am leaning towards Thunderclap and Chain Lightning instead of the Invoke Lightning and Shell Shock

I am seeing something good in the new Lightning Javalin.
It seems to hit every foe in at least adjacent but maybe nearby range to the projectile while traveling to the target.

Trying it on the test dummies in the Isle of the Nameless, it managed to hit 5 dummies in row that were more or less in a straight line.
Targeting the fartest dummy, the other 4 were in adjacent or nearby range to the projectile.

Kunder · Sep 14, 2012, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Y'all are missing the point. FLARE GOT BUFFED.

dagrdagaz · Sep 14, 2012, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Oh yeah, Flare is the best skill ever !!!

Bristlebane · Sep 14, 2012, 12:02 PM // 12:02

So when do we see Flare-builds show up in gwpvx meta?

Or Flareway, hahahaha

Rifky · Sep 14, 2012, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagrdagaz

I am seeing something good in the new Lightning Javalin.
It seems to hit every foe in at least adjacent but maybe nearby range to the projectile while traveling to the target.

Trying it on the test dummies in the Isle of the Nameless, it managed to hit 5 dummies in row that were more or less in a straight line.
Targeting the fartest dummy, the other 4 were in adjacent or nearby range to the projectile.

According to the developer page:
Lightning Javelin is a bit of an experiment on the types of things we can do with projectile skills in the Guild Wars engine.
One need to know how exactly projectiles work. They are obstruction-sensitive, so maybe now they hit anything that they would stop on, if it was an obstruction? The question is, how wide is the, well, how to say it, stripe of obstruction-sensitivity, if you get my drift.
By the way, it kind of reminds of Torment Slash. I believe TS is not a projectile, but still, it hits every enemy in front of the monster, where the danger zone is sort of in shape of a stripe. Why haven't they used that mechanic for player skills before? :O

On another note, the update might affect some Pre-Searing gameplay - while the change of Flare won't do this (no Overcast in Pre), the buff of Lightning Javelin may move this skill from "never used" to "sporadically used", and the buff of Fire Storm makes it even more overpowered in Pre.

dagrdagaz · Sep 14, 2012, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Regarding pre, there are foes u encounter during the Vanguard quests that use Firestorm and/or Lightning Javalin.
These foes could become (even) more trouble now

Mintha Syl · Sep 14, 2012, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rifky

On another note, the update might affect some Pre-Searing gameplay - while the change of Flare won't do this (no Overcast in Pre), the buff of Lightning Javelin may move this skill from "never used" to "sporadically used", and the buff of Fire Storm makes it even more overpowered in Pre.

Now you're making me wanna do another pre-ele <.< But I kept mine there for years so uhm no. But it'd be nice to hear from someone else who has a perma-pre ele.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagrdagaz

Regarding pre, there are foes u encounter during the Vanguard quests that use Firestorm and/or Lightning Javalin.
These foes could become (even) more trouble now

Ouch didn't think about this, it's been a while since I last did those quests...which were they, the bandits?

Bristlebane · Sep 14, 2012, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Funny they mentioned in dev log about starter skills and flare, while pre-flare will be exactly the same due to no overcast :P